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It seems that there is a debate brewing about whether or not the North Carolina Department of Agriculture has the authority to post “No Weapons” signs at the North Carolina State Fair that is going on right now.
You see, in the past the fair was off limits for concealed carry due to the admission fee charged for entry, but with the passage of House Bill 937, that was removed from the law.
(Photo Credit: Jeff Grimm)
The law specifically mentions the places where concealed carry is not allowed, so lets look at the prohibited places found in NCGS 14-415.11, and see how they tie into this situation:
(c) Except as provided in G.S. 14-415.27, a permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:
(1) Areas prohibited by G.S. 14-269.2, 14-269.3, and 14-277.2.
(2) Areas prohibited by G.S. 14-269.4, except as allowed under G.S. 14-269.4(6).
(3) In an area prohibited by rule adopted under G.S. 120-32.1.
(4) In any area prohibited by 18 U.S.C. § 922 or any other federal law.
(5) In a law enforcement or correctional facility.
(6) In a building housing only State or federal offices.
(7) In an office of the State or federal government that is not located in a building exclusively occupied by the State or federal government.
(8) On any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.
Let’s go through these areas:
(1) Areas prohibited by G.S. 14-269.2, 14-269.3, and 14-277.2.
14-269.2 prohibits carry in schools. This was amended by HB937 a little to allow guns in locked vehicles on school grounds.
14-269.3 prohibits carry in places that charge admission, but this was amended by HB937 (section 3) exempting concealed carry permit holders, but it does add the following language:
This subdivision shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a handgun on any premises where the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14-415.11(c).
14-277.2 prohibits guns at parades. This was also amended by HB937 (section 15) exempting concealed carry permits holders. This section also includes the following language:
This subdivision shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a handgun on any premises where the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14-415.11(c).
(2) Areas prohibited by G.S. 14-269.4, except as allowed under G.S. 14-269.4(6).
14-269.4 prohibits carry in the Governors mansion, Governors western residence, State Capitol building, and any courthouse. If a building contains stuff other than just a court, only the part of the building containing the court is off limits.
(3) In an area prohibited by rule adopted under G.S. 120-32.1.
This allows for legislators, and legislative employees to have guns locked in their vehicles on certain state properties (Look at section c1, and d)
(4) In any area prohibited by 18 U.S.C. § 922 or any other federal law.
18 USC 922 is a listed of federally prohibited places for firearms. These don’t apply to the fairgrounds…
(5) In a law enforcement or correctional facility.
I’m pretty sure the state fairgrounds are neither a Law Enforcement, or Correctional facility.
(6) In a building housing only State or federal offices.
Key word here is building. The NC state fairgrounds is not a building. There are buildings on the grounds, but I doubt too many of them contain state ONLY State or Federal offices.
(7) In an office of the State or federal government that is not located in a building exclusively occupied by the State or federal government.
Ok, this is similar to the court thing in section 2. If there is a State of federal office in a building that isn’t 100% State of federal offices, you still can’t carry in those offices, but the rest of the building isn’t necessarily off limits…
(8) On any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.
The NC State fairgrounds is not a private premises. It’s owned by the state.
So, after going through all of this, in my (non lawyer) opinion, it seems pretty weak that the NC Department of Agriculture has the authority to prohibit concealed carry on the premises of the NC State Fairgrounds. The only hangup seems to be 14-269.3 where it says:
This subdivision shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a handgun on any premises where the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14-415.11(c).
If the Department of Agriculture has possession, and control of the premises of the NC State Fairgrounds, and it’s posted with a conspicuious notice (which it is) it would seem that they are ok to prohibit concealed carry under the current laws.
But wait, there’s more:
This whole thing comes down to this: Does a Department of the NC state government have the authority to post a NC state property that isn’t specifically prohibited under the law, if they are in legal control of the premises?
The answer is… I don’t know.
Good article Lucas. I came across your site because I am heading to the Fair this morning and was wondering how the recent law changes might impact my ability to carry while there. Thanks for the insight.
Thanks Gary. Im certain the good folks at GRNC will be looking into this as soon as they get a chance.
Question, does there need to be specific verbiage? IE, the sign says ‘no weapons’. The statute says “…has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting THE CARRYING OF A CONCEALED handgun.”. I believe in some states they have to explicitly prohibit concealed carry. Not sure how NC interprets this.
No specific verbiage required in NC, just has to be conspicuously posted, if I remember correctly.
From a Georgia boy:
The issue is not as difficult as it was presented in this article.
Look, 14.269.3 referring to legal possession of property refers to 14.415.11(c), of which point #8 specifies “PRIVATE premises”.
So, I am positive that the NC State Fair cannot legally prohibit lawfully carried weapons.
Has anyone in NC contacted the Attorney General or your legislators about this?
Get together a group of you that have weapons licenses, and peacefully and openly carry there, and video tape the event. Invite the media. Bring a copy of the pertinent laws. Embarass them. Demand your rights!
Y’all were talking about this in 2013, and now it’s a year later. Any progress…at all?
No progress, but you definitely have a good point.